The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
certificate?


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Today is a good day. Not because anything wonderful is happening, so
much, but because my definition of a 'bad day' has been revised.
-- Chris Klein

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
> Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
> training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
> certificate?

Are you an alien student? Do you have a TSA online account? For a U.S.
citizen its the same for any checkride, you need your passport
(sometimes B-certificates is accepted by the examiner) and ID.
If you are an alien student I believe you do not need TSA clearance.
However, if you go for your multi rating you'll need to go through the
processes.

-Robert, CFII (land and sea), TSA certified alien flight training
provider.

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
> Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
> training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
> certificate?
>
>
My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
what they're talking about.

In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" > said:
>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
>> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
>> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
>> certificate?
>
>Are you an alien student? Do you have a TSA online account? For a U.S.

Well, I'm a resident alien. And I got my pilot certificate and instrument
rating long before these stupid rules came along, so I don't have a TSA
online account.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
If God had intended man to fly he would have given him enough money for a
Bonanza.

Paul... I believe the answer is... you are adding to what you do not already
have.. so it would require the TSA registration... if you are getting
"currency" training or qualification as in a flight review, or a check out
at a new FBO to rent an ASEL.. then you do not need to do the TSA dance.
BT

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> In a previous article, "Robert M. Gary" > said:
>>Paul Tomblin wrote:
>>> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got
>>> an
>>> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
>>> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my
>>> existing
>>> certificate?
>>
>>Are you an alien student? Do you have a TSA online account? For a U.S.
>
> Well, I'm a resident alien. And I got my pilot certificate and instrument
> rating long before these stupid rules came along, so I don't have a TSA
> online account.
>
> --
> Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
> If God had intended man to fly he would have given him enough money for a
> Bonanza.

BTIZ wrote:
> Paul... I believe the answer is... you are adding to what you do not already
> have.. so it would require the TSA registration... if you are getting
> "currency" training or qualification as in a flight review, or a check out
> at a new FBO to rent an ASEL.. then you do not need to do the TSA dance.
> BT
>
Ugh, tell that to one flight school I tried to get checked out at. They
argued and argued that I needed to prove citizenship in order to get a
checkout from them. I finally decided that the $15 savings wasn't worth
it, and walked out.

Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
the club and fly its pipers.

He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.

Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who wanted the grief
of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.

Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like childs' play.

Don

Don Tuite wrote:
> Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
> jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
> helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
> the club and fly its pipers.
>
> He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
> What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
> as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
> his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
> always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
> didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.

That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

Emily wrote:
> BTIZ wrote:
> > Paul... I believe the answer is... you are adding to what you do not already
> > have.. so it would require the TSA registration... if you are getting
> > "currency" training or qualification as in a flight review, or a check out
> > at a new FBO to rent an ASEL.. then you do not need to do the TSA dance.
> > BT
> >
> Ugh, tell that to one flight school I tried to get checked out at. They
> argued and argued that I needed to prove citizenship in order to get a
> checkout from them. I finally decided that the $15 savings wasn't worth
> it, and walked out.

Proving citizenship and having to get TSA approval are two very, very
different things.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> BTIZ wrote:
>>> Paul... I believe the answer is... you are adding to what you do not already
>>> have.. so it would require the TSA registration... if you are getting
>>> "currency" training or qualification as in a flight review, or a check out
>>> at a new FBO to rent an ASEL.. then you do not need to do the TSA dance.
>>> BT
>>>
>> Ugh, tell that to one flight school I tried to get checked out at. They
>> argued and argued that I needed to prove citizenship in order to get a
>> checkout from them. I finally decided that the $15 savings wasn't worth
>> it, and walked out.
>
> Proving citizenship and having to get TSA approval are two very, very
> different things.
>
> -Robert
>
You don't have to prove citizenship unless you're getting a new rating.

Emily wrote:
> That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
> doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

My guess is that he didn't have a US certificate and he needed to take
an FAA checkride to gain US privs.

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
>> doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.
>
> My guess is that he didn't have a US certificate and he needed to take
> an FAA checkride to gain US privs.
>
> -Robert

But he said he had a "US airline transport rating". Unless that means
something else...

Of course, I had a club try to make me produce my complex endorsement
once. It was locked in a safety deposit box out of state, and try as I
might, I couldn't convince them that because I was joining as a CFI
member, that meant I had a complex endorsement. I think sometimes the
people who make club/FBO rules have no grasp of the FARs.

Emily wrote:
> You don't have to prove citizenship unless you're getting a new rating.

The FBO is allowed to make their own rental criteria. Being asked for
proof of citizenship is nowhere near as big of an issue as having to
pass a TSA approval process (which is what we were discussing)

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> You don't have to prove citizenship unless you're getting a new rating.
>
> The FBO is allowed to make their own rental criteria. Being asked for
> proof of citizenship is nowhere near as big of an issue as having to
> pass a TSA approval process (which is what we were discussing)
>
> -Robert
>
You misunderstood. They claimed this was because of the TSA rule.
Clearly, the rule doesn't apply to rentals.

To get a full issue USA certificate, you do need to meet all
the details of part 61, including solo hours. But he could
not
have just gotten a USA PPL with IR based on his CA license
because he has a US certificate.
Adding an ATP cat/class rating is quick and easy, it is the
certificate that counts and not the
details in the logbook.

To add a class rating, an ATP needs no training if he does a
single engine ATP, can sign himself off.
ATP rotorcraft helicopter can add a ASEL ATP, no specific
time required.

§ 61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.
(a) Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating. A
person applying for an airline transport certificate with a
rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating who holds an
airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft
category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.161 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(4) of this part.

(b) Airplane category rating with a single-engine class
rating. A person applying for an airline transport
certificate with an airplane category and single-engine
class rating who holds an airline transport pilot
certificate with another aircraft category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.159 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(1) of this part.

(c) Airplane category rating with a multiengine class
rating. A person applying for an airline transport
certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class
rating who holds an airline transport certificate with
another aircraft category rating must:

(1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
part;

(2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
areas of §61.155(c) of this part;

(3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this part,
if appropriate;

(4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience requirements
of §61.159 of this part; and

(5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
§61.157(e)(2) of this part.

(d) Powered-lift category. A person applying for an airline
transport pilot certificate ...






"Don Tuite" > wrote in
message ...
| Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
immigrant had to
| jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
rating, but in
| helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
to buy into
| the club and fly its pipers.
|
| He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL
training.
| What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the
solo hours
| as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
fixed-wing hours in
| his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends,
and he'd
| always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said
those hours
| didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
|
| Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
wanted the grief
| of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
|
| Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
childs' play.
|
| Don

Didn't say, but since he has an ATP he HAS already passed
the tests except for the actual checkride.

Oral and flight will do it. CFI not required, but
recommended.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"Jim Macklin" > wrote
in message news:fqhtg.67549$ZW3.3870@dukeread04...
| To get a full issue USA certificate, you do need to meet
all
| the details of part 61, including solo hours. But he
could
| not
| have just gotten a USA PPL with IR based on his CA license
| because he has a US certificate.
| Adding an ATP cat/class rating is quick and easy, it is
the
| certificate that counts and not the
| details in the logbook.
|
| To add a class rating, an ATP needs no training if he does
a
| single engine ATP, can sign himself off.
| ATP rotorcraft helicopter can add a ASEL ATP, no specific
| time required.
|
| § 61.165 Additional aircraft category and class ratings.
| (a) Rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating. A
| person applying for an airline transport certificate with
a
| rotorcraft category and helicopter class rating who holds
an
| airline transport pilot certificate with another aircraft
| category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.161 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(4) of this part.
|
| (b) Airplane category rating with a single-engine class
| rating. A person applying for an airline transport
| certificate with an airplane category and single-engine
| class rating who holds an airline transport pilot
| certificate with another aircraft category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.159 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(1) of this part.
|
| (c) Airplane category rating with a multiengine class
| rating. A person applying for an airline transport
| certificate with an airplane category and multiengine
class
| rating who holds an airline transport certificate with
| another aircraft category rating must:
|
| (1) Meet the eligibility requirements of §61.153 of this
| part;
|
| (2) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge
| areas of §61.155(c) of this part;
|
| (3) Comply with the requirements in §61.157(b) of this
part,
| if appropriate;
|
| (4) Meet the applicable aeronautical experience
requirements
| of §61.159 of this part; and
|
| (5) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation of
| §61.157(e)(2) of this part.
|
| (d) Powered-lift category. A person applying for an
airline
| transport pilot certificate ...
|
|
|
|
|
|
| "Don Tuite" > wrote
in
| message ...
|| Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
| immigrant had to
|| jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
| rating, but in
|| helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
| to buy into
|| the club and fly its pipers.
||
|| He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL
| training.
|| What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the
| solo hours
|| as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
| fixed-wing hours in
|| his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends,
| and he'd
|| always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO
said
| those hours
|| didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
||
|| Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
| wanted the grief
|| of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
||
|| Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
| childs' play.
||
|| Don
|
|
|
|

On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:03:25 -0500, Emily >
wrote:

>Don Tuite wrote:
>> Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
>> jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
>> helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
>> the club and fly its pipers.
>>
>> He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
>> What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
>> as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
>> his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
>> always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
>> didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
>
>That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
>doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.

Wasn't us. We were in awe. FAA. He wasn't licensed to fly fixed-wing
in the USA. Only had helicopter ATPs in the US and Canada. (He flew
Sikorskis and stuff. Helicopter logging, Installing radio towers,
water-bombing wildfires.)

Don

Don Tuite wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:03:25 -0500, Emily >
> wrote:
>
>> Don Tuite wrote:
>>> Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
>>> jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
>>> helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
>>> the club and fly its pipers.
>>>
>>> He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
>>> What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
>>> as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
>>> his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
>>> always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
>>> didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
>> That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
>> doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.
>
> Wasn't us. We were in awe. FAA. He wasn't licensed to fly fixed-wing
> in the USA. Only had helicopter ATPs in the US and Canada. (He flew
> Sikorskis and stuff. Helicopter logging, Installing radio towers,
> water-bombing wildfires.)

Ok, I totally missed the helicopter thing the first time though.
Nevermind, I'm not confused anymore!

Emily wrote on 07/12/06 15:58:

> Paul Tomblin wrote:
>> The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
>> Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
>> training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
>> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
>> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
>> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
>> certificate?
>>
>>
> My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
> what they're talking about.


Yup. That was what my FBO said when I inquired before becoming a citizen: any
new rating needs this.
As if I was any less trustworthy as Permanent Resident than as US citizen...

-Joe

a Canadian with a canadian fixed wing rating cannot fly a US regisistered
airplane
He needs should have just been able to get the US equivalent based on his
Canadian fixed wing rating.

The US ATP in helo would have no merit in this case.

BT

"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
> Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed immigrant had to
> jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport rating, but in
> helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted to buy into
> the club and fly its pipers.
>
> He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo PPL training.
> What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all the solo hours
> as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of fixed-wing hours in
> his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with friends, and he'd
> always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO said those hours
> didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
>
> Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who wanted the grief
> of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
>
> Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like childs' play.
>
> Don

re read the post.. I believe it said the US ATP rating was for helicopters,
not fixed wing.
BT

"Emily" > wrote in message
...
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> Emily wrote:
>>> That doesn't make my sense, if he had an FAA ATP. What kind of club
>>> doesn't accept an ATP? Mine did.
>>
>> My guess is that he didn't have a US certificate and he needed to take
>> an FAA checkride to gain US privs.
>>
>> -Robert
>
> But he said he had a "US airline transport rating". Unless that means
> something else...
>
> Of course, I had a club try to make me produce my complex endorsement
> once. It was locked in a safety deposit box out of state, and try as I
> might, I couldn't convince them that because I was joining as a CFI
> member, that meant I had a complex endorsement. I think sometimes the
> people who make club/FBO rules have no grasp of the FARs.

Joe Feise wrote:
> Emily wrote on 07/12/06 15:58:
<snip>
>>>
>>>
>> My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
>> what they're talking about.
>
>
> Yup. That was what my FBO said when I inquired before becoming a citizen: any
> new rating needs this.
> As if I was any less trustworthy as Permanent Resident than as US citizen...

Don't bring logic into this.

Since he has a USA ATP rotorcraft certificate he no longer
qualifies to use the Canadian certificate to get a USA
private based on the Canadian certificate. The easiest path
to fly USA airplanes in the USA is to add the category and
class rating to the ATP, no more written is required, just
an oral and flight test. Using a CFI and getting the
required 61.31 endorsements is necessary, but the CFI does
not have to recommend for the ATP additional rating.

General rule... A US certificate holder must have the
category, class and type ratings but can fly any aircraft
registered any where in the world within the USA. They can
fly a US registered aircraft anywhere in the world. A
Canadian can fly a US registered aircraft in Canada or any
other within Canada or possibly in international airspace,
except within the USA.


The holder of an ATP can choose to add a rating at a lower
level to the certificate, but in that case needs to have the
appropriate knowledge test and all the endorsements and
signatures. Their certificate would be ATP rotorcraft [this
example] helicopter and the ASEL IR commercial privileges.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:_Kktg.12010$6w.1684@fed1read11...
|a Canadian with a canadian fixed wing rating cannot fly a
US regisistered
| airplane
| He needs should have just been able to get the US
equivalent based on his
| Canadian fixed wing rating.
|
| The US ATP in helo would have no merit in this case.
|
| BT
|
| "Don Tuite" > wrote
in message
| ...
| > Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
immigrant had to
| > jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
rating, but in
| > helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
to buy into
| > the club and fly its pipers.
| >
| > He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo
PPL training.
| > What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all
the solo hours
| > as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
fixed-wing hours in
| > his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with
friends, and he'd
| > always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO
said those hours
| > didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
| >
| > Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
wanted the grief
| > of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
| >
| > Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
childs' play.
| >
| > Don
|
|

Emily wrote:
> You misunderstood. They claimed this was because of the TSA rule.
> Clearly, the rule doesn't apply to rentals.

Today even the person behind the counter at the FBO is required to take
TSA training. In that training they spend a lot of time talking about
the risks of new renters. They give yuo several scenarios and ask you
how do you react. After sitting through all that training I could
easily see how an FBO would be concerned enough to ask for
documentation for all renters. TSA is basically saying the person
behind the counter is responsible for determining if a new renter is a
terrorist or not.

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 00:00:05 +0000, Don Tuite wrote:

> FSDO said those hours didn't count because
> he wasn't SOLO.

Well, at least they're consistent. The commercial rating has a solo XC
requirement, for example, and flying with friends - even if completely
aviation-ignorant - doesn't count as "solo".

- Andrew

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> You misunderstood. They claimed this was because of the TSA rule.
>> Clearly, the rule doesn't apply to rentals.
>
> Today even the person behind the counter at the FBO is required to take
> TSA training. In that training they spend a lot of time talking about
> the risks of new renters. They give yuo several scenarios and ask you
> how do you react. After sitting through all that training I could
> easily see how an FBO would be concerned enough to ask for
> documentation for all renters. TSA is basically saying the person
> behind the counter is responsible for determining if a new renter is a
> terrorist or not.
>

My point was, it's not legally required. And I get ****y when someone
asks me for something that's not legally required - at least when it's a
ridiculous legal requirement to begin with. If that made sense.

And believe me, I've taken the TSA training. It's so not applicable to
freelance CFI's. Every answer seemed to be "Check with your supervisor".

On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:15:28 -0500, Emily >
wrote:

>My point was, it's not legally required. And I get ****y when someone
>asks me for something that's not legally required - at least when it's a
>ridiculous legal requirement to begin with. If that made sense.

I'm with you.
>
>And believe me, I've taken the TSA training. It's so not applicable to
>freelance CFI's. Every answer seemed to be "Check with your supervisor".

Isn't that the truth! When I was taking it I just shook my head
through the whole thing.

z

Emily wrote:
> Paul Tomblin wrote:
> > The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
> > Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
> > training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
> > certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
> > PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
> > another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
> > certificate?
> >
> >
> My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
> what they're talking about.

Ask them to show you where it says that. The only two ratings that need
TSA approval are the instrument and multi-engine ratings. The TSA
document is very clear despite its insanity.

Emily wrote:
> And believe me, I've taken the TSA training. It's so not applicable to
> freelance CFI's. Every answer seemed to be "Check with your supervisor".

I agree. It was actually much worse before AOPA informed the TSA that
indi CFIs exist. However, in some sense this just shows how spoiled we
are with the FAA. The FAA regs are written in "plain english" (in the
legal sense) and rules are mostly very black and white. The rest of the
fed gov't is not so straight foward and many rules are written by
intention. The TSA rules are a perfect example. They gave us vague
rules and then said "enforcement is not our objective, compliance is".
In other words "do as we want, not as we say".
-Robert

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
> Emily wrote:
>> Paul Tomblin wrote:
>>> The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight Training/Citizenship Validation
>>> Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that validation is required for
>>> training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or private pilot
>>> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument training". If I've got an
>>> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating) constitute going for
>>> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an add-on to my existing
>>> certificate?
>>>
>>>
>> My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again, they might not know
>> what they're talking about.
>
> Ask them to show you where it says that. The only two ratings that need
> TSA approval are the instrument and multi-engine ratings. The TSA
> document is very clear despite its insanity.

I really prefer to associate with them as little as humanly possible.
This was a conversation that came up when I *had* to go in there. We
were just shooting the breeze, so i wasn't looking for references or
anything.

TSA Too Stupid for Arby's




--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Emily" > wrote in message
. ..
| Andrew Sarangan wrote:
| > Emily wrote:
| >> Paul Tomblin wrote:
| >>> The AOPA "Guide to TSA's Alien Flight
Training/Citizenship Validation
| >>> Rule" http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/ says that
validation is required for
| >>> training for "recreational pilot, sport pilot, or
private pilot
| >>> certificate; multiengine rating; or instrument
training". If I've got an
| >>> PP-ASEL-IA, does going for my ASES (float rating)
constitute going for
| >>> another private pilot certificate, or is it just an
add-on to my existing
| >>> certificate?
| >>>
| >>>
| >> My FSDO says yes, it's another rating. Then again,
they might not know
| >> what they're talking about.
| >
| > Ask them to show you where it says that. The only two
ratings that need
| > TSA approval are the instrument and multi-engine
ratings. The TSA
| > document is very clear despite its insanity.
|
| I really prefer to associate with them as little as
humanly possible.
| This was a conversation that came up when I *had* to go in
there. We
| were just shooting the breeze, so i wasn't looking for
references or
| anything.

Thanx Jim.. BT

"Jim Macklin" > wrote in message
news:Mrstg.67571$ZW3.30375@dukeread04...
> Since he has a USA ATP rotorcraft certificate he no longer
> qualifies to use the Canadian certificate to get a USA
> private based on the Canadian certificate. The easiest path
> to fly USA airplanes in the USA is to add the category and
> class rating to the ATP, no more written is required, just
> an oral and flight test. Using a CFI and getting the
> required 61.31 endorsements is necessary, but the CFI does
> not have to recommend for the ATP additional rating.
>
> General rule... A US certificate holder must have the
> category, class and type ratings but can fly any aircraft
> registered any where in the world within the USA. They can
> fly a US registered aircraft anywhere in the world. A
> Canadian can fly a US registered aircraft in Canada or any
> other within Canada or possibly in international airspace,
> except within the USA.
>
>
> The holder of an ATP can choose to add a rating at a lower
> level to the certificate, but in that case needs to have the
> appropriate knowledge test and all the endorsements and
> signatures. Their certificate would be ATP rotorcraft [this
> example] helicopter and the ASEL IR commercial privileges.
>
>
> --
> James H. Macklin
> ATP,CFI,A&P
>
> "BTIZ" > wrote in message
> news:_Kktg.12010$6w.1684@fed1read11...
> |a Canadian with a canadian fixed wing rating cannot fly a
> US regisistered
> | airplane
> | He needs should have just been able to get the US
> equivalent based on his
> | Canadian fixed wing rating.
> |
> | The US ATP in helo would have no merit in this case.
> |
> | BT
> |
> | "Don Tuite" > wrote
> in message
> | ...
> | > Couple years ago, a buddy of mine, a Canadian landed
> immigrant had to
> | > jump through the hoops. He had a US airline transport
> rating, but in
> | > helicopters and a canadian fixed wing rating. He wanted
> to buy into
> | > the club and fly its pipers.
> | >
> | > He had to go through the TSA stuff AND take post-solo
> PPL training.
> | > What was particularly wacky was that he had to do all
> the solo hours
> | > as well. Why? Because while he had hundreds of
> fixed-wing hours in
> | > his Canadian logbooks, he'd generally flown with
> friends, and he'd
> | > always noted their names in the remarks column. FSDO
> said those hours
> | > didn't count because he wasn't SOLO.
> | >
> | > Also, it was hard fo find a freelance instructor who
> wanted the grief
> | > of making sure he'd crossed his Ts and dotted his Is.
> | >
> | > Makes buying stamps at an Italian Post Office seem like
> childs' play.
> | >
> | > Don
> |
> |
>
>